| Forum » General » For those complaining about offside traps | Date | |
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Fiscal
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I'm simply looking forward to other tactics being introduced to beat the high offside trap. Through balls is what a I want personally. Edited by Colebourn 01-12-2011 21:10 |
01/12/2011 16:58 |
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Checks and balances! For every point, there needs to be a counterpoint. the high offsides line currently does not have a counterpoint. lobbed or ground through-balls, diagonal runs from strikers, and direct red cards (if striker is brought down by last defender) should be implemented. also, striker should be given an increased advantage to score if it is a true 1 on 1 (i.e. no defender is within a 10 yd range). i think these are fair changes. |
01/12/2011 17:38 |
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I am pleased to see such support for these changes, it makes me even more determined to get them implemented. Tx for the feedback guys! |
01/12/2011 17:43 |
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i love chelsea to death, but look at AVB's high line as the perfect example. We are allowing goals like its going out of fashion! | 01/12/2011 17:44 |
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@GunnerNic said: Real Life: Once broken the offside trap only my 82 yr old grandmother (who is quite quick on her granny bike) will pass forwards to another attacker to get an offside flag. SM: Any attacker ahead of the ball or even in line automatically gets the pass (remember there are no defenders now, only a GK to beat) and is blown for offside. This is the one that kills me almost every time. Such a bonehead move by my forwards. Using RF/LF instead of CF does help vs the trap a bit, but when one passes ahead to the other when they are both clear of the trap is just frustrating to no end. |
01/12/2011 19:15 |
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Fargone said: @GunnerNic said: Real Life: Once broken the offside trap only my 82 yr old grandmother (who is quite quick on her granny bike) will pass forwards to another attacker to get an offside flag. SM: Any attacker ahead of the ball or even in line automatically gets the pass (remember there are no defenders now, only a GK to beat) and is blown for offside. This is the one that kills me almost every time. Such a bonehead move by my forwards. Using RF/LF instead of CF does help vs the trap a bit, but when one passes ahead to the other when they are both clear of the trap is just frustrating to no end. If you are ahead of the last defender then you need to pass backwards to avoid being offside. I know you realise this but may users don't. People are complaining that they are ahead of the last defender, but then have their offensive line in a triangle(CF in front), this guarantees offside when the winger gets chased down with the ball. Pull back the CF so he arrives in a line with the wingers/LF/RF. It takes a bit of playing with to get right, but works. |
01/12/2011 19:32 |
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I've tried it and it doesnt always work, not consistently, even a sideways pass is blown for offside and when LIM or RIM should pass slightly backwards to the CF, they look at him and laugh coz he cant keep up and try shoot themselves invariably hitting the mark squarely in the middle but just so happens the mark is the corner flag. | 01/12/2011 20:46 |
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With respect for Gunner, I must disagree with some points below. Try not to hate me  .@GunnerNic said: Ok, you may remember I said in another thread that I would be campaigning to fix this high offside line crap as a tactic. It looks like I'm getting my wish. They will be making changes to the sim to stop users doing this. Basically after they fix it (and lets hope its done properly) it will be "Sure - go ahead and do it, but dont complain when you get beaten 7-0 cz you didnt bring your defs back from the HALFWAY line" The picture above doesn't explain the point I was trying to make (Man City still have 2 defs out of picture so they not playing for offside and Arsenal are playing a std offside which may last a minute or 2 and their defenders are not on the halfway line like many users are playing in SM) If you trying to compare the sim to real football when it comes to offside which you trying to say in this thread then here's the comparisons with the current sim: Real Life: Defs on the halfway line are common when team is attacking in the final 1/4 but not when the play is midfield. SM: Defs are on the halfway line right up to when the ball gets there, then only drop back slightly. Real Life: offsides trap is very effective when defenders are extremely fast, and extremely organized. A true offside trap occurs when the defenders run away from their own goal in a line just before the ball is delivered in a pass. I saw Chelsea play several games in 2004 where they played right at the base of the midfield circle when the ball was at the midfield. Your argument is limited in that it is not actually true 100% of the time. Offside trap at the highest level can be extremely high. SM: I've seen several version of offside tactic. Your argument is a straw man. Real Life: With a halfway offside line, longballs and through balls into WIDE open space are used constantly to break that offside line. SM: No through balls or longballs over the top into space at all. Only silly little passes just in front of the attacker easily mopped up by the defender. true. In SM, the goalie also never runs out to get these long balls or through balls, which is a top ten bug that is ACTUALLY ON THE LIST, unlike the offside trap, which is only your personal crusade, and not a cause of the majority of users. Real Life: Once broken the offside trap only my 82 yr old grandmother (who is quite quick on her granny bike) will pass forwards to another attacker to get an offside flag. SM: Any attacker ahead of the ball or even in line automatically gets the pass (remember there are no defenders now, only a GK to beat) and is blown for offside. Real Life: absolutely true SM: I have not had this problem with my formations for over a month and I literally leave my CF hanging out on the penalty box: perhaps you are not using the simulator tactics settings in a way that would prevent this? It is simply doing what you tell it to do... In other words: it is not absolutely true that SM handles this incorrectly, it can be programmed to pass only when the attacker is onside. Real Life: A defender running back to cover a broken offside trap and hacks down the attacker will get a minimum of a yellow card every time! SM: The occasional yellow card is shown after repeated hacking. fouls in SM have no connection to reality, which is a real problem. Real Life: With only a GK to beat and 2 attackers bearing down on him, 9 times out of 10 a goal is scored. SM: A goal is scored maybe 1 time out of 10. I beg to differ - in real life, it's about 5 out of 10. However, in a real game, having more than 15 shots on goal would be an extraordinary occurence. I consider it a bad game in SM if my team has fewer than 30 shots on goal. Also, in real life, the players aren't 2 inches tall playing on a field the size of Texas. Once again, I'm not pointing blame at users for using it, I am forced to use it myself sometimes, but I can totally understand users frustrated playing against it and wanting it changed. The truth is that I have seen it beaten HANDILY and been the recipient of beatings. I adjusted my offside trap to respond to anti-offside trap tactics as a result, and adjusted my offense to attack offside traps as well. I want to point out that the only teams I have heard complaining about the offside trap are those who have averages > 70 from their individual players. I am also an example of a user who has very happily played against an offside trap and won, with the current simulator. I only use myself as an example to point out the flaws in your argument: it is actually simple to beat an offside trap in the current SM, it just requires some serious ingenuity. I also have a major issue with any large changes to the simulator because of history. Last season, I spent the whole ******* season training up my players in a balanced manner so that they could compete in the simulator against teams that weren't doing this. Then, we were given two weeks to essentially throw that out the window and train players up to the highest average possible because that was arbitrarily decided that it would be the only criterion used to convert players to the new simulator. This season, I've been training my players to work around the offside trap and other quirks of the current simulator. If they change the simulator AGAIN with no notice (and by notice I mean *1 full season*), it will mean another season of wrong-headed training strategy, which will benefit only those who resisted the simulator, or took the laziest path, and punish those who slaved and tried to play smarter. I STRONGLY oppose this kind of administration, it makes the game unbelievably frustrating to never know how to plan a long-term strategy for your team. If you don't already have a 70+ average team, it can mean the difference between promotion and success or relegation and kills the fun. Need I remind everyone of the HUGE rash of quitters from Division 3 this season? Making a change this large will have unintended consequences that will make the game less fun. I can guarantee it. Fix the existing, known simple bugs FIRST, then tackle these controversial "improvements" that have far-reaching consequences and could easily backfire and make the game worse. Even if the offside trap isn't totally realistic, we aren't playing FIFA here folks!! Our players have exactly specified characteristics and predictable improvement patterns, morale and fitness are quantifiable, our stadiums can be under massive construction and still host home games, the psychologist can improve morale by quanitifiable amounts. Need I continue, or have I made my point about the value of "realism" in this game? It isn't the realism that has made this game addictive, it is the way it "rhymes" with reality. It's almost real, but simpler in some key ways that make it possible to effect change more causally than in real life. |
02/12/2011 04:55 |
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When you say only managers with >70 players complain you know you are talking about 9/10th of the players right? Average was supposed to only matter at about 60% and tactics would feel the rest up but nooooo average matters at 90% with offside trap since it is nearly impossible to a team to get through a team's (which is only 10pts better) trap. Also when you say that this is not FIFA i understand but why do you think there is the new sim? It's for more realism. Those who started the game are trying to make the sim realistic and It's not going to work with this offside trap thing Offside trap is now a tactic that some people here are addicted too and mostly don't think about defence beside pushing players high. Now they just think about how to set up offence. And like I said before it's always an advantage since it has NO (or minimal) downs. Also this is part of the bug. If my team is better and I use good tactics then those "simple" bugs wouldn't pose a big problem. But offside trap changes everything that gives that suspense in football. That "what tactic is he going to use?" moment. Players here are smaller and stuff but why would that matter? I'm not saying that this game has to be like FIFA but it has to make managers THINK more since it's a "managing" game. I still don't understand why you LOVE that offside trap so much and you strongly disagree to it to be slightly improved so that it is still possible to use it but it has more downs. You may not call it a bug but it is a MASSIVE part of this game and there is no point in waiting if changes are possible NOW. |
02/12/2011 05:42 |
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This is hilarious . Your logic is solid, but is not based on the actual striker manager. I have lost to a couple of better and a couple of "worse" teams who played offside trap, and a couple who didn't play it, but had better offensive anti-offside trap strategies. I play an offside trap that (as gunner describes) drops back when the ball comes over the half line, and my results have been much better and more realistic. I'm sorry, but 9/10 of the players on striker manager have team averages of about 30-40. 9/10 of *Division 3* players have team averages over 70. I have no clue where you got your stats. I don't love the offside trap. I would like the developers to fix the bugs on the actual bug list that have been clogging the forums for months and not get distracted by a few high-team-average players whining about losing to a particular tactic. How can you justify to the players who have messaged me freaking out over an opponent scoring a goal magically from a goal kick, getting a penalty called at midfield, losing because their GK didn't run out to get the ball that was 2 inches from him, or other bugs on the top 10 list, such as the players who were not allowed to change their line-up *at all* for over 3 weeks? Can you justify ignoring their problems in favor of making a major change to the logic of the game play that is not nearly as serious? No. You can't. I wlil not let this rest. We have been maintaining a top-ten list of bugs on the moderators forum for the developers, and on the general forum for the users so that you can see what the top priorities are from the perspective of the users. offside trap IS NOT ON THAT LIST FOR A REASON. It's not a frickin bug. It's a feature request. I hate to insult your intelligence, or that of other users who have been complaining, but all of you need to understand that if you're losing to offside traps, it is your own fault, not the simulator's fault. I have not had trouble against it, and in the games that I have had trouble, I made adjustments, and have had much better results in following games. I have trained my players so that they respond better to offside trap offensively, and execute it better defensively. It's just one aspect of the game to plan for, and I don't find it limits anything, as a simple dip**** "pop all the defenders on the midfield line" defense falls EASILY to my offensive strategies. You can't just "fix" a problem like this without understanding the potential consequences. For a good example of what a "fix" might look like, check out the thread of good teams complaining that their high finishing forwards are missing 80-90% of their shots after the scoreline hits 5-0. Now, for an example of an ACTUAL bug on the top ten list, let's look at offsides calls. 1) it is NOT offside if your player receives the ball in his own half. This change alone will punish extreme high defensive line. 2) it is NOT offside if the other team passes to you. Again, this change will punish offside trap. 3) passing to obviously offside players (this one is debatable - I've seen crappier teams do this, but it should be less common at highest level) 4) allow GK to run out of his little box to the side and front to get the ball. This will add that "will he make it???!?" tension to games just like real games. None of these is "punishing offside trap," but are just fixing bugs that are obvious in every single game AND will make stupid offside trap setups horrible for those who use them, without punishing those who use it intelligently. See the difference? Adding a new feature (such as lobbing the ball into space) without addressing these problems (and the other more serious ones) first is the height of irresponsibility. It basically ignores the vast majority of users and gives preferential treatment to a few who frankly are doing just fine (high-average teams). |
02/12/2011 06:06 |
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