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  Forum » General » market regulation Date
Username
1772 msgs.
International
hi, my understanding of what an @ fiscals voluntary job is to stop cheats

over the years this seems to have warped somewhat into a market lead by perceived values and not actual ones

we all want a rising market in every area of the game but when demand isnt there and as quantity of quality stock increases prices will fall as result

ofc the free market needs checking on all the time and for that we owe the fiscals much thanx, we dont want cheats to get away with anything



starting auctions low is poor choice for most managers with top players - thats because of the poor market, managers dont want to risk getting a below 'perceived market rate' from risky low auctions.


lost my line of thought now but am sure someone will come in and make some sense of this

29/04/2014 16:45
  - Div/Gr
Username
501 msgs.
MVP of the game
wiveliscombe said:

lost my line of thought now but am sure someone will come in and make some sense of this



Lol all you will get is the thread moved to off topic ^_^
29/04/2014 19:14
  - Div/Gr
Username
1772 msgs.
International
yeah poss szab but u know what im driving at whilst trying to walk on egg shells

and hey we are not allowed to discuss manager punishments on forums we can at least discuss the roles our @'s should perform
29/04/2014 20:26
  - Div/Gr
Fiscal
6832 msgs.
Golden Ball
superkrapper said:
yeah poss szab but u know what im driving at whilst trying to walk on egg shells

and hey we are not allowed to discuss manager punishments on forums we can at least discuss the roles our @'s should perform


I think someone looking for a ban

I get what you saying and I agree, the bargaining goes out of the window with us around, never a good deal its always a deal the fiscals say
29/04/2014 20:30
  Steel City - Div4/Gr12
Username
1772 msgs.
International
what sort of ban could i get - forum ban? but then who would u talk to here eam

yeah this is exactly my point dude - if a manager can negotiate with 2 managers with very sim players a 'good' price for me then i say its down to good scouting then negotiating skills as well as being a net worker b4 hand + am sure had i taken more time i could have found a few more - no patience me!

having seen alot of action in market this w/e due to sk's auctions mainly /o\ we have a better idea of where the market is at


i can see its hard job to know what fair values are but we are ham strung by a poor 'simular transfers' function that is too narrow in focus (it should always give u say the closest 10 -15 most sim recent deals
due to server space restictions i can see uplay are limited in this but there are many ways round this at no server space cost at all

seperately we dont help our selves, we should have better org in the sales forums by making 3-10 stickies for various ranges of players - so upto 60 current ave for sales then 61-70, 71-80 etc... then people can subscribe to them for ever


i do get frustrated by this game there are so many easy gr8 improvements that could easily be made for our server but uplay sux and with many clear exceptions alot of @s are anonymous ;( imo

i can understand now why people do leave

end of rant

peace




29/04/2014 20:47
  - Div/Gr
Username
9897 msgs.
Golden Ball
Imo, the market is sh*ty with ridiculous prices. I sometimes get frustrated upon seeing stupid players value so high.
I hope this will not help me get a 24hr ban
30/04/2014 00:14
  - Div/Gr
Username
3880 msgs.
Best scorer
It's easier to negotiate good deals if the buyer and seller negotiate a price BEFORE they talk to fiscals, then simply ask is x amount okay.

Like say for instance you have negotiated a price to buy a player for 200 mil who is worth about 240ish you would get the okay for the purchase without needing to know the midpoint value.
30/04/2014 02:00
  - Div/Gr
Fiscal
1835 msgs.
International
I couldn't agree more with bowser. I think that we ourselves have created a culture that is becoming of this problem, so now we have to sleep in it or eat it... or something like that.

As it is now, when two managers want to make a deal all they actually do is ask a fiscal to come up with a price for them. Essentially, we ask someone completely removed from the situation, who does not know the environment at each club or the circumstances of the deal, to offer a fair price. When this happens, prices as always going to be incredibly generic... it's only possible to base decisions on the most similar transfers, leading to a very sterile market. As soon as a ruling comes from a position of authority, it immediately and severely limits our negotiations, regardless of its accuracy (yes, general users with an @ sign before their name, who are completely removed from a situation, can make mistakes...surprise, surprise). Basically, we are foregoing our rights and capacities to manage our own teams.

How should it be? Managers should negotiate their own transfers. This means that you and your buyer discuss the parameters of your transfer, exchanging arguments and counterarguments for a price, until you can come to an agreement. In this situation, you may start with relevant similar transfers as a baseline but you are able to accommodate the environments at each club and adjust things to include the circumstances surrounding the deal. With this, you get a deal that is fair and fulfilling for both parties and a more representative and flexible marketplace overall. THEN you go to a fiscal with your agreed price and explanation and they will give it a yes or no answer. Now we actually have an justification for our price and some, which means that 9 out of 10 times the fiscal will still approve it (save for the cases of an obvious circumvention).

More importantly, we have more of a defence to fall back on then the rubbish "a fiscal told me this price was fair" cop out. If this is your only defence for a fine, you're going to have a bad time. Fiscals are already over worked and they are human; sometimes they don't have the time, energy, resources...or intelligence (@illex, @StarWars)...to make a proper, informed ruling. As managers, it is entirely our responsibility to understand the market and use prices that fall within its parameters. If a fiscal gives us a price, we should know if that price is fair or accurate because we know what is fair and accurate ourselves. Not only do we want to be able to give and get good prices to advance our tea, but because fiscals can make errors and deals are never set in stone. Just because a terrorist with a bomb strapped to his chest got past border patrol doesn't mean that local PD couldn't/shouldn't still nab him. Take care of yourselves!

Just my nickel (because we don't just pennies in Canada anymore).
30/04/2014 07:33
  - Div/Gr
Username
9897 msgs.
Golden Ball
Heidstra said:
I couldn't agree more with bowser. I think that we ourselves have created a culture that is becoming of this problem, so now we have to sleep in it or eat it... or something like that.

As it is now, when two managers want to make a deal all they actually do is ask a fiscal to come up with a price for them. Essentially, we ask someone completely removed from the situation, who does not know the environment at each club or the circumstances of the deal, to offer a fair price. When this happens, prices as always going to be incredibly generic... it's only possible to base decisions on the most similar transfers, leading to a very sterile market. As soon as a ruling comes from a position of authority, it immediately and severely limits our negotiations, regardless of its accuracy (yes, general users with an @ sign before their name, who are completely removed from a situation, can make mistakes...surprise, surprise). Basically, we are foregoing our rights and capacities to manage our own teams.

How should it be? Managers should negotiate their own transfers. This means that you and your buyer discuss the parameters of your transfer, exchanging arguments and counterarguments for a price, until you can come to an agreement. In this situation, you may start with relevant similar transfers as a baseline but you are able to accommodate the environments at each club and adjust things to include the circumstances surrounding the deal. With this, you get a deal that is fair and fulfilling for both parties and a more representative and flexible marketplace overall. THEN you go to a fiscal with your agreed price and explanation and they will give it a yes or no answer. Now we actually have an justification for our price and some, which means that 9 out of 10 times the fiscal will still approve it (save for the cases of an obvious circumvention).

More importantly, we have more of a defence to fall back on then the rubbish "a fiscal told me this price was fair" cop out. If this is your only defence for a fine, you're going to have a bad time. Fiscals are already over worked and they are human; sometimes they don't have the time, energy, resources...or intelligence (@illex, @StarWars)...to make a proper, informed ruling. As managers, it is entirely our responsibility to understand the market and use prices that fall within its parameters. If a fiscal gives us a price, we should know if that price is fair or accurate because we know what is fair and accurate ourselves. Not only do we want to be able to give and get good prices to advance our tea, but because fiscals can make errors and deals are never set in stone. Just because a terrorist with a bomb strapped to his chest got past border patrol doesn't mean that local PD couldn't/shouldn't still nab him. Take care of yourselves!

Just my nickel (because we don't just pennies in Canada anymore).

Christ did i just read all of this????
30/04/2014 07:47
  - Div/Gr
Username
1772 msgs.
International
Heidstra said:
I ).


nice thesis Heidstra my initial post was saying @fiscals have enlarged their remit from stopping cheating to actually controlling the market ( central financial planning)

and as Heid points out totally kills the fun in negotiating surely the whole point of game

i think Heid tentatively suggests @s just butt out of most deals and then they can just hunt for cheaters (the job)

im not trying to @ bash here the @s i know do the best job they can in the most impartial mannor poss its just the job has been changed /twisted

30/04/2014 14:22
  - Div/Gr
     
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